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i think that's what boehner is trying to do. god bless him for it because it's not going to be easy but that's exactly what they have to do in order to figure out how do they become a political party, not a sunsetting party, but a political party that has force, not just within the walls of d.c. but outside as well. >> i'm reminded 69 words of george carlin who said it's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. joy, maria teresa, thank you. the guys who gave us the go go '90s call for even greater tax hikes than the president. shouldn't we listen to them? stay with us. >> please, do something frightening between now and the midterm elections because if you do not, the republicans will have to do something truly terrifying like addressing the needs of blacks, women, and hispanics. um... uh... um... hm... umm... uh... oh ! the windows phone 8x by htc on verizon. it features easy to navigate live tiles that are simple to customize. just pin what matters most right to your homescreen. exclusively with d
i think that's what boehner is trying to do. god bless him for it because it's not going to be easy but that's exactly what they have to do in order to figure out how do they become a political party, not a sunsetting party, but a political party that has force, not just within the walls of d.c. but outside as well. >> i'm reminded 69 words of george carlin who said it's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. joy, maria teresa, thank you. the guys who gave...
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again, though, the most important dynamic here is between the president and boehner. >> yes. >> and boehner and republicans who have not voted to raise any taxes in washington in, what, 20, 25 years? >> mm-hmm. >> and so, as mark said, the president has just made john boehner's job much, much more difficult. everybody is looking at tom cole now who is going to be prima primaried. this is what happens when you go and try to meet democrats halfway. according to "the new york times," they start with a proposal that's loaded with democratic priorities. according to "the wall street journal," the first offer was provocative. suddenly tom cole looks like an idiot out there. >> or he gives someone to boehner's left so he doesn't look so extreme. >> but, again, the president by putting this offer out there just made it impossible for another tom cole to step out and be responsive. >> the curt phone call between ba boehner and the president makes me feel they are posturing and getting -- >> first of all, i couldn't disagree more. i think there are lines of optimism to be seen very clearly in this de
again, though, the most important dynamic here is between the president and boehner. >> yes. >> and boehner and republicans who have not voted to raise any taxes in washington in, what, 20, 25 years? >> mm-hmm. >> and so, as mark said, the president has just made john boehner's job much, much more difficult. everybody is looking at tom cole now who is going to be prima primaried. this is what happens when you go and try to meet democrats halfway. according to "the...
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how much pressure is speaker boehner under? does he have real allies at this point, since it seems he's being pulled in multiple directions here? >> speaker boehner is under enormous pressure, and if he needed to have this vote with just his own caucus or conference, he wouldn't be able to get it done. to the vote in the house, i think for every -- i think there's more tom coles there than we know that won't speak up. >> why won't they speak up? are they waiting to see the next round of back and forth? >> well, that could be part of it, but also, they're a little bit concerned about what their constituents are going to say. they don't want their e-mail box bombarded by the heritage foundation. now you see two extreme views. i think you'll end up at the trillion dollar mark, and i think that speaker boehner will need a lot of of democrats but i think he'll get them if everybody can come to a plan. he can use his moderates and democrats and get the votes he needs. >> thank you all for your time. great pleasure to have you on the
how much pressure is speaker boehner under? does he have real allies at this point, since it seems he's being pulled in multiple directions here? >> speaker boehner is under enormous pressure, and if he needed to have this vote with just his own caucus or conference, he wouldn't be able to get it done. to the vote in the house, i think for every -- i think there's more tom coles there than we know that won't speak up. >> why won't they speak up? are they waiting to see the next...
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Dec 1, 2012
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i think john boehner is in a nightmare situation. it could not be a cleaner case for republicans defending only the tax cuts for the top 2%. this is very clear. mitt romney tried to parse it and say, well, maybe we'll get revenue from capping deductions. maybe we'll go after the mortgage interest or some other deductions. that was litigated. they lost. it's simple and clear to everyone that 98% of the tax cuts could go through tomorrow, today, any time if boehner got out of the way. but he still has the rejectionists in the lame duck caucus, and i think he's a little afraid the right flank might come at that speakership he has to reup for on january. he has to talk the tea party, talk even though he knows it's a losing proposition. >> i know you're a progressive, and that's why i love you. but let's talk politics. why does a political party that hopes to get 51% of the country in the next presidential election put all its stock in 2%? >> well, you're dealing with reality. the reality -- >> yeah. >> the tea party caucus of the house w
i think john boehner is in a nightmare situation. it could not be a cleaner case for republicans defending only the tax cuts for the top 2%. this is very clear. mitt romney tried to parse it and say, well, maybe we'll get revenue from capping deductions. maybe we'll go after the mortgage interest or some other deductions. that was litigated. they lost. it's simple and clear to everyone that 98% of the tax cuts could go through tomorrow, today, any time if boehner got out of the way. but he...
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so it must come down to boehner's future. do you see more and more republicans starting to peel off in the house? will this pressure mount? >> absolutely. i think -- i think we're seeing an awful lot of republicans already folding privately. and i think that that's being reflected in the larger debate. i think we're going to see more of that. i mean, i'm very struck by -- the day after we had the sacred cows of the republican party -- i mean, there was a barbecue of the sacred cows. it was amazing. grover norquist, persona non grata. karl rove, completely unwelcomed in many corners in which he was star in the sun king. i think as people are feeling that, you're sensing that they really need to rethink in both short term and long term what kind of a republican party can they be? >> okay. donna gentile-o'donnell and michael eric dyson. professor, great to have you with us tonight. >>> there's a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the ed show." stay tuned. >> we're not going to implement obama care in florida. >> we're
so it must come down to boehner's future. do you see more and more republicans starting to peel off in the house? will this pressure mount? >> absolutely. i think -- i think we're seeing an awful lot of republicans already folding privately. and i think that that's being reflected in the larger debate. i think we're going to see more of that. i mean, i'm very struck by -- the day after we had the sacred cows of the republican party -- i mean, there was a barbecue of the sacred cows. it...
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we all know john boehner. john boehner's a deal maker. i didn't -- i liked him personally, but i never trusted him in congress because, you know, he liked making deals. that's what we need right now. the president can only push him so far. or he loses his caucus. and this is not about john boehner kicking and screaming. this is about him knowing what he can deliver. >> i understand that. john boehner has, and eric cantor and a paul ryan problem, he's got to keep them on board as his key guys. he can only go so far. i would guess that they're the ones holding the pen when he wrote, "i will not raise rates" in that letter he sent to president obama. but the problem is, we can agree or disagree with the president's position. i honestly take the president at his word. i do not believe there will be a deal here without some increase in tax rates for the top 2%. it doesn't have to be all of it, but some of it. i think the president has changed his tune a bit from the way he's handled some of these other negotiations. and take everything you say
we all know john boehner. john boehner's a deal maker. i didn't -- i liked him personally, but i never trusted him in congress because, you know, he liked making deals. that's what we need right now. the president can only push him so far. or he loses his caucus. and this is not about john boehner kicking and screaming. this is about him knowing what he can deliver. >> i understand that. john boehner has, and eric cantor and a paul ryan problem, he's got to keep them on board as his key...
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boehner to stop protecting the rich. joy reid is managing editor of the grio, and david corn is washington bureau chief for mother jones and the author of the ebook "47 percent." today the president took his pitch to a factory in the philadelphia suburbs, and he made clear the rich must pay their fair share. obama's job number one, a tax cut for the 98%. the rest of the people. let's listen to him. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable to you for just a handful of republicans in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on upper income folks to go up. all right? that doesn't make sense. the senate has already passed a bill to keep income taxes from going up on middle class families. that's already passed the senate. your members of congress, like allyson and chaka, other democrats in the house, they're ready to go, they're ready to vote on that same thing. if we can just get a few house republicans on board, we can pass the bill in the house, it will
boehner to stop protecting the rich. joy reid is managing editor of the grio, and david corn is washington bureau chief for mother jones and the author of the ebook "47 percent." today the president took his pitch to a factory in the philadelphia suburbs, and he made clear the rich must pay their fair share. obama's job number one, a tax cut for the 98%. the rest of the people. let's listen to him. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable to you for just a...
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the republican party is going to be looking to john boehner to carry its flag. >> well, if boehner is carry the flag, kristen, today his counter proposal said we're going to protect the rich, not give a tax cut, and he put social security and cutbacks and entitlements and seniors on the table. how is that going to help them when all polls show that americans overwhelmingly won't support that. >> i disagree about all polls showing that. i think you've got a lot of folks concerned about the solvency of the entitlement programs. let's take a look. let's not leave anything off the table in terms of looking at both medicare and medicaid and social security. you also have the question of is there a way for you to increase revenue, even if it's revenue that is primarily coming from the wealthiest americans without changing the rates themselves. i think that's what republicans are trying to do with this most recent offer. >> but to increase revenues where everyone puts in but the wealthy is what helps lose the last election. we're not talking about put everything on the table and see where it
the republican party is going to be looking to john boehner to carry its flag. >> well, if boehner is carry the flag, kristen, today his counter proposal said we're going to protect the rich, not give a tax cut, and he put social security and cutbacks and entitlements and seniors on the table. how is that going to help them when all polls show that americans overwhelmingly won't support that. >> i disagree about all polls showing that. i think you've got a lot of folks concerned...
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house speaker john boehner will be here as well. there have been a lot of questions about whether these two will run into each other, whether they will talk about the fiscal cliff. no one is signaling what they might discuss, but house speaker john boehner when asked about tonight's event said that he thinks he might run into the president. >> no doubt. kristin, we're also hearing that the president has made some reference to the possibility of president assad or the fear, the rumor, that president assad might use chemical weapons against his own people, and we know, of course, saddam hussein do that against the kurds. what is the president saying about the prospect of that? >> reporter: well, some tough talk just a few minutes ago. president obama saying that if, in fact, the administration receives serious evidence that syria is, in fact, using chemical weapons, moving chemical weapons, that that would be a red line for this administration. now, we pressed white house press secretary jay carney on this point earlier and said, what
house speaker john boehner will be here as well. there have been a lot of questions about whether these two will run into each other, whether they will talk about the fiscal cliff. no one is signaling what they might discuss, but house speaker john boehner when asked about tonight's event said that he thinks he might run into the president. >> no doubt. kristin, we're also hearing that the president has made some reference to the possibility of president assad or the fear, the rumor, that...
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the reason why boehner has trouble cutting a deal is not because boehner can't cut a deal. i think in five minutes' time he and obama would come up -- >> excuse me, excuse me, you're wrong. you're wrong. all that grover has to say, all he has to say is, we're in a particular fiscal crunch right now, and we've got to make allowances for that. if he did that, a lot would change. >> grover only counts because these tea party guys, the 50, 60, 70 in the house, they have a theological opposition to any -- >> let's go -- >> all they're worried about is being primaried from the right -- >> i know -- let's talk about the caucus you used to work with and know. >> very well. >> aren't there a lot of people over there if grover came out and said these are peculiar times, we have to make a couple adjustments. >> members of congress should not have to negotiate with grover norquist. >> but i'm asking you an open question. would that have any influence? >> it could but it would -- for grover he's an activist. he's someone -- he has his ideals, and if he compromises on that, that's harder
the reason why boehner has trouble cutting a deal is not because boehner can't cut a deal. i think in five minutes' time he and obama would come up -- >> excuse me, excuse me, you're wrong. you're wrong. all that grover has to say, all he has to say is, we're in a particular fiscal crunch right now, and we've got to make allowances for that. if he did that, a lot would change. >> grover only counts because these tea party guys, the 50, 60, 70 in the house, they have a theological...
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now, this may well present a problem for john boehner's caucus, because john boehner sent a letter to the president this week with his own plan, which advocates what just might be the least popular policy in american politics. okay, maybe that's hyperbole. but just be a tiny bit, i mean, mandatory gay marriage, in which every single married straight person had to immediately divorce their spouse, and accept a state-assigned same-gender spouse to replace them would probably be more popular than what john boehner proposed this week. what john boehner is advocating is making medicare available to fewer americans. as it happens, there is brand-new polling out today on how americans feel about the idea of congress using these deficit negotiations to make cuts to medicare. 79% of americans say they do not want congress to touch medicare in these deficit negotiations. 79%. if you want to get specific about john boehner's proposal, what he wants to do to medicare is to raise the eligibility age from 65 to 67. and as it turns out, there is also recent polling on that specific proposal. and it
now, this may well present a problem for john boehner's caucus, because john boehner sent a letter to the president this week with his own plan, which advocates what just might be the least popular policy in american politics. okay, maybe that's hyperbole. but just be a tiny bit, i mean, mandatory gay marriage, in which every single married straight person had to immediately divorce their spouse, and accept a state-assigned same-gender spouse to replace them would probably be more popular than...
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it's magic beans and ferry dust. >> john boehner's heavy-handed approach to leadership, boehner and the republican steering committee kicked four republican congressmen out of their committee seats for voting against party leadership in the past. but boehner finds himself in an increasingly weak position. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell refused to take a position on boehner's debt plan today. >> i have no particular observation other than i commend the house leadership for trying to move. the process along and getting to a point where hopefully we can have a real discussion. >> house democrats are cranking up the pressure. tim walsh of minnesota introduced a discharge petition on the middle class tax cuts in the house. if it gets 218 signatures, it would get a floor vote before the end of the month. >> this is an issue that we all agree on. >> democratic leader nancy pelosi announced a plan for the discharge petition last week. the petition keeps the focus on extending tax cuts for 98% of americans. i spoke to leader pelosi late this afternoon about the strategy and the latest de
it's magic beans and ferry dust. >> john boehner's heavy-handed approach to leadership, boehner and the republican steering committee kicked four republican congressmen out of their committee seats for voting against party leadership in the past. but boehner finds himself in an increasingly weak position. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell refused to take a position on boehner's debt plan today. >> i have no particular observation other than i commend the house leadership for...
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so john boehner has wiggle room. he can look like he's the tough guy to the tea party folks who have to vote him back in as speaker. tom cole is really laying out the policy. if they wanted to shut him up, he would have been shut up. and so, where does this leave them? they're not going to play the card on the debt ceiling because that was a disaster for them. they're going to say, you know what, we tried to say the democrats were not serious about spending cuts, but they have no option. they lost the election. you know, republican voters were lied to about the state of the polls. they were lied to about the state of america. and if they want to believe that this is the only path that only spending cuts will get them to deficit reduction, they can carry on believing that or get to a place where they're going to get re-elected. >> richard, i think the president is offering a great deal to the republicans. here's why. these guys can go home 98% and say, you know what, 98% of you, i got the tax cuts. i didn't raise your
so john boehner has wiggle room. he can look like he's the tough guy to the tea party folks who have to vote him back in as speaker. tom cole is really laying out the policy. if they wanted to shut him up, he would have been shut up. and so, where does this leave them? they're not going to play the card on the debt ceiling because that was a disaster for them. they're going to say, you know what, we tried to say the democrats were not serious about spending cuts, but they have no option. they...
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they don't want to hear boehner capitulate. if you read a lot of the right wing sides, not the crazy once, they're already teeing up to say bain ser a failure, he gave into obama. they want to hear him talk the talk. while he still has the rejectionists in hand in the lame duck caucus and while he has that donor class that wants to hear this conservative rhetoric, he's still got to play the game. behind the jeans i think republicans understand they're going to lose that top rate fight. they're going to lose that and i wouldn't be surprised if they wound up putting the debt creeling into the deal at the end, but up until the moment they make the deal, he's got to talk the talk. >> if i was only interested in right wing money and money at the top, i would say that's all true and, therefore, the faster they make a deal the better because if they're going to raise the rate anyway, get it over with. >> it would be better for the republicans if they make a deal now. >> boehner can make a better deal now. the question is whether anyon
they don't want to hear boehner capitulate. if you read a lot of the right wing sides, not the crazy once, they're already teeing up to say bain ser a failure, he gave into obama. they want to hear him talk the talk. while he still has the rejectionists in hand in the lame duck caucus and while he has that donor class that wants to hear this conservative rhetoric, he's still got to play the game. behind the jeans i think republicans understand they're going to lose that top rate fight. they're...
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the call unlike the night when president obama called john boehner on election day and john boehner didn't answer his call. i think that you have to have both parties willing to engage with each other and talk to each other. looking back at the 1980s, for example, when ronald reagan was president and tip o'neill was speaker of the house, they didn't agree but they sit down and talk and negotiate and compromise and today's republican party so hijacked by the right wing they're incapable of agreement. >> let's put aside the right wing here. we know that speaker boehner purged some of those seen as not being team players within his own party and we'll discuss the fact he's taken a hit for that. beyond the right wing or whatever you have numbers. you have exit polling. you have pew research poll that shows where the american people stand. if all of the people are there to represent us, meaning the people who are watching right now and the panel included here, we are all americans, we pay taxes, then why isn't this work getting done? >> well, just look at speaker boehner's fiscal cliff p
the call unlike the night when president obama called john boehner on election day and john boehner didn't answer his call. i think that you have to have both parties willing to engage with each other and talk to each other. looking back at the 1980s, for example, when ronald reagan was president and tip o'neill was speaker of the house, they didn't agree but they sit down and talk and negotiate and compromise and today's republican party so hijacked by the right wing they're incapable of...
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choose from among these gals, john boehner and good luck. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >>> john boehner knows that the president is right on taxes. he knows it, but he's afraid to say that now, so he's sending one of his loyal soldiers out there to say it for him. >> there may be a debate over whether it's a cliff or curb. >> bump in the road. >> the curve of a mole hill. >> but there is one indes putable fact. >> the fact is definitely ticking. >> it's time for the president and democrats to get serious. >> i got a pen. i'm ready to sign it. >> some signs of compromise. >> congressman tom cole urged his colleagues to get in line behind president obama. >> that's just silly. >> scared me a little bit. >> i told tom earlier that i disagreed with him. >> shame on him. >> why would you do that? it's like selling your soul. >> i hope his wife understands. >> he brought my wife into it? he's never met me, my wife. >> his wife. >> some of these people have had impure thoughts? >> do you have any impure thoughts about gr
choose from among these gals, john boehner and good luck. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >>> john boehner knows that the president is right on taxes. he knows it, but he's afraid to say that now, so he's sending one of his loyal soldiers out there to say it for him. >> there may be a debate over whether it's a cliff or curb. >> bump in the road. >> the curve of a mole hill. >> but there is one indes putable fact. >> the fact is...
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boehner. >> let's not kid ourselves. but when i come out the day after the election and make it clear that republicans will put revenue on the table, i took a great risk. and then the white house spends three weeks trying to develop a proposal and they sum one up here that calls for $1.6 trillion in new taxes, calls for not even $4 billion in cuts, and they want to have this extra spending that's actually greater than the amount they're willing to cut. i mean it was not a serious proposal. and so right now we're almost nowhere. >> let me start with -- let me start with joe jan on this thing because you and i often agree. this whole thing here, i just think boehner has never accepted the fact that the rates have to go up at the top. i mean they're talking about deductions and all this finesse, they lost this debate. if there was any issue that came out, the president was dead right. he mads he statement clear. the public wants to have some tax fairness. they don't want the top 2% to hold this thing up. boehner doesn't wan
boehner. >> let's not kid ourselves. but when i come out the day after the election and make it clear that republicans will put revenue on the table, i took a great risk. and then the white house spends three weeks trying to develop a proposal and they sum one up here that calls for $1.6 trillion in new taxes, calls for not even $4 billion in cuts, and they want to have this extra spending that's actually greater than the amount they're willing to cut. i mean it was not a serious...
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so it's a lot of problems for boehner. we're going to see how skillful and how powerful and how really strong and how good of a politician he is over the next month, how he handles the challenge. the white house doesn't want to ultimately damage boehner too badly because if you lose him, you lose his power and he steps down. he's only speaker two more years. who do you get next? somebody not as moderate and not going to want to negotiate in the same way that he has? so it's careful situation for all around. >> yeah. eric cantor, the thing that protects boehner the most from a mutiny is he doesn't want to deal with it right now. that if anything else keeps boehner in the job for two more years. up next, is america in the tloes of a religious revival? it may not feel like it, but the numbers show religion is as powerful and influential as ever. [ female announcer ] a classic meatloaf recipe from stouffer's starts with ground beef, unions, and peppers baked in a ketchup glaze with savory gravy and mashed russet potatoes. what
so it's a lot of problems for boehner. we're going to see how skillful and how powerful and how really strong and how good of a politician he is over the next month, how he handles the challenge. the white house doesn't want to ultimately damage boehner too badly because if you lose him, you lose his power and he steps down. he's only speaker two more years. who do you get next? somebody not as moderate and not going to want to negotiate in the same way that he has? so it's careful situation...
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boehner knows this. this is why boehner is now coming to the table saying, all right, we can't do the cliff thing, we'll get the political hit for it and we'll also be in a bad negotiating position. but he has to identify where the money's coming from. and it's got to be rates. i get a sense in washington that the democrats have drawn the line in the sand on rates. if you can't get rates, you can't get anything else. boehner's going to come out and identify a bunch of deductions. that's not going to be enough. you got to go the rates. once you do the rates, everything else might fall in place because do i think the white house will negotiate. >> i want to go over the stakes of all of this just for the average american family, if we do go over the cliff, about 90% of households would end up paying almost $3,500 more in taxes and one in five action pai -- taxpayers would have to pay the alternative minimum tax, which would mean an increase of $3,700 more of what you already know and those on unemployment i
boehner knows this. this is why boehner is now coming to the table saying, all right, we can't do the cliff thing, we'll get the political hit for it and we'll also be in a bad negotiating position. but he has to identify where the money's coming from. and it's got to be rates. i get a sense in washington that the democrats have drawn the line in the sand on rates. if you can't get rates, you can't get anything else. boehner's going to come out and identify a bunch of deductions. that's not...
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boehner's emboldened by that support. but also you know i think they've been swashbuckling insofar as keeping the raucous members or purging them from committee chairs. >> there's definitely been a new message which is that john boehner's the boss and we're not going to deal with insubordination. if you look at that offer, people are saying it's boehner's offer. it's signed by eric cantor. >> and paul wrien. >>> and paul ryan. any leader who the rebels, shall we say, within the republican conference could have, is now aligned with wehner completely. strengths his hand. he's the sole negotiate, whatever he gets from president obama will be the rule of law. and i think what's really emboldened boehner, ironically, mitt romney's loss. it's this idea that john boehner's survived, he's the one who came through. we were able to keep the house. he does get a lot of credit for that among house republican circles, they were able to keep the house. people think -- >> he raised something like 100 million dollars. >> he's the kingmak
boehner's emboldened by that support. but also you know i think they've been swashbuckling insofar as keeping the raucous members or purging them from committee chairs. >> there's definitely been a new message which is that john boehner's the boss and we're not going to deal with insubordination. if you look at that offer, people are saying it's boehner's offer. it's signed by eric cantor. >> and paul wrien. >>> and paul ryan. any leader who the rebels, shall we say, within...
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that said, how much is boehner helped by his proposal? his proposal seemed a little bit not quite even close to what boehner and the president were in july of 2011 when the grand b bargain talks fell apart but now you've got conservative criticism of what he did offers as a reminder how difficult it is to find 218 votes in the house. >>> well, what the president set to announce his secretary of state pick, some worry it may be stretched out now to early next week, senator john kerry desperately wants the job, has stayed very, very quiet. yesterday he exchanged good natured ribbing with senator john mccain at a news conference called for support of a u.n. treaty to support those with disabilities around the world. mccain started it off. >> thank you very much, mr. secretary. [ laughter ] >> thank you very much, mr. president. [ laughter ] this is what happens when you get too loose. >> kerry and mccain are working together on the effort to persuade their senate colleagues to ratify the convention on the rights of persons with disabilities.
that said, how much is boehner helped by his proposal? his proposal seemed a little bit not quite even close to what boehner and the president were in july of 2011 when the grand b bargain talks fell apart but now you've got conservative criticism of what he did offers as a reminder how difficult it is to find 218 votes in the house. >>> well, what the president set to announce his secretary of state pick, some worry it may be stretched out now to early next week, senator john kerry...
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and this is where boehner is running into trouble. do you think they'll eventually put a rate increase on the table? >> they're either going to do that or take us into a very dangerous fiscal situation over the cliff. this is a loosy in the football situation and the president says, i'm not going to kick again until you show me some serious commitment. and keep in mind, this is the republican leadership that supported the $718 billion of savings in medicare that was part of the health care provisions to extend the life of medicare, and then ran against it, as being something that was stealing money from medicare. so it's not even just a matter of putting those ideas on the table, but willing to be consistent about it. but i think what you see right now from the white house is a deadly seriousness about this balance of getting our fiscal house in order, but also making sure we make the investments in the middle class to grow, and they're looking for a partner here. they've got to have a partner who's willing to put some facts on the ta
and this is where boehner is running into trouble. do you think they'll eventually put a rate increase on the table? >> they're either going to do that or take us into a very dangerous fiscal situation over the cliff. this is a loosy in the football situation and the president says, i'm not going to kick again until you show me some serious commitment. and keep in mind, this is the republican leadership that supported the $718 billion of savings in medicare that was part of the health...
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speaker boehner's $800 billion tax hike will destroy american jobs. the heritage foundation skewered the boehner counteroffer on its blog. at first blush, it appears little more than categorical preemptive capitulation. to be fair, the details of the republican proposal are extraordinarily vague to the extent it can be interpreted from the hazy details that it is utterly unacceptable. president obama said today there is a time and a place to discuss reforming the tax code. but that time is not now. >> what i've suggested is let's put a down payment on taxes, let's let tax rates on the upper income folks go up. let's let those go up. and then let's set up a process with a time certain at the end of 2013 or the fall of 2013 where we work on tax reform. we look at what loopholes and deductions both democrats and republicans are willing to close. and it is possible that we may be able to lower rates by broadening the base at that point. >> joining me here in washington are congressman tim walls, democrat from minnesota, and karen finney, the former dnc di
speaker boehner's $800 billion tax hike will destroy american jobs. the heritage foundation skewered the boehner counteroffer on its blog. at first blush, it appears little more than categorical preemptive capitulation. to be fair, the details of the republican proposal are extraordinarily vague to the extent it can be interpreted from the hazy details that it is utterly unacceptable. president obama said today there is a time and a place to discuss reforming the tax code. but that time is not...
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i think for now it's a tactical move on boehner's party. it's not a declaration boehner is supporting ryan in 2016. >> but, jamal, isn't that the problem for the whole party? isn't the problem that this party, unless it can broaden and deal with the new america, the new electorate that they lost to in november -- >> bad. >> -- that they will never be able to regain footing and eventually just be a permanent marginal party? >> absolutely. they've got to figure out a way out of this box. paul ryan -- paul ryan and i are about the same age. these are different kinds of republicans. they're not afraid of talking to people of color, not afraid of some of these things, some of their parents and grandparents were. this is what i'm saying. democrats have to be careful. barack obama supporting a democrat in 2016 does not mean that democrat's going to get black and latino votes. these democrats are going to have to have solid programs that appeal to these constituencies and fundamental relationships and not be dependent upon the president to carry th
i think for now it's a tactical move on boehner's party. it's not a declaration boehner is supporting ryan in 2016. >> but, jamal, isn't that the problem for the whole party? isn't the problem that this party, unless it can broaden and deal with the new america, the new electorate that they lost to in november -- >> bad. >> -- that they will never be able to regain footing and eventually just be a permanent marginal party? >> absolutely. they've got to figure out a way...
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that boehner knows, there is nothing i can do. we're going to have to go off the curb for my members to understand where we really are. we're going to have to have one week of the united states of america operating under higher tax brackets, higher withholding, on takehome pay. and then i'll be able to talk some sense to them. and from the president's side of it, going off the cliff, the curb, just gives him the tax rates he wants at the top and then you just have to adjust down from that. >> i agree. and i think people should generally ignore what boehner is saying and the way he's saying it. i totally agree with you. i think that boehner right now, he can't humiliate his caucus. he can't come out and publicly admit, look, we're beaten. he's got to still talk the tea party talk to the extent they have any power left. >> but he let's tom cole go out there and tell the truth. >> right. >> that is a boehner authorized mission, cole going out there. >> totally agree. >> chris hayes and joy reid, thank you. chris hayes' show is "up wi
that boehner knows, there is nothing i can do. we're going to have to go off the curb for my members to understand where we really are. we're going to have to have one week of the united states of america operating under higher tax brackets, higher withholding, on takehome pay. and then i'll be able to talk some sense to them. and from the president's side of it, going off the cliff, the curb, just gives him the tax rates he wants at the top and then you just have to adjust down from that....
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boehner will be glad to see the end of mr. demint. >> i'm sure he will. i think it represents the weakens of the tea party within congress. jim demint is a movement conservative. we have certainly not seen nor heard the last of him. he will find other ways to create headaches for both boehner and mcconnell, but i agree with david. most importantly, it may be a slight relief from the headache for john boehner, but he's still got a big challenge in that he is negotiating at this point with himself and not facing the reality that he doesn't really have a lot of leverage. >> indeed. jared, speaking of the details themselves, speaker boehner is saying that his is a serious offer that produces sufficient revenue and savings for the next decade. you're an economist, does it? do his numbers really add up? >> well, no, they don't add up because they lack any level of specificity that you would need to even write them down and put a plus sign next to them so see if they'd add up. he did the same -- >> hang on a second though. he said he stuck $800 billion in revenu
boehner will be glad to see the end of mr. demint. >> i'm sure he will. i think it represents the weakens of the tea party within congress. jim demint is a movement conservative. we have certainly not seen nor heard the last of him. he will find other ways to create headaches for both boehner and mcconnell, but i agree with david. most importantly, it may be a slight relief from the headache for john boehner, but he's still got a big challenge in that he is negotiating at this point with...
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boehner also said something very curious today. he said, and i'm quoting him, he took a great risk in his speech the day after the election when he said he was open to more revenue. he was putting revenues on the table, but the only thing he said was exactly what mitt romney had been saying for the last years, closing loopholes and reducing deductions. >> and, martin, he still had to walk that back afterwards. professor reich is right here. what the american people need to understand is that we're looking at a political party that for different reasons can sometimes put politics ahead of the people. and the reasons here have to do with the monied interests and the way they represent the 1% from a political perspective. so, again, my hope is that once the tea party congress within -- the tea party caucus within the congress is diminished in the new year, we've gone off the fiscal curb, we can have some reality in the discussions we need to have. >> but professor reich, boehner says there's a stalemate. but realistically, is the stal
boehner also said something very curious today. he said, and i'm quoting him, he took a great risk in his speech the day after the election when he said he was open to more revenue. he was putting revenues on the table, but the only thing he said was exactly what mitt romney had been saying for the last years, closing loopholes and reducing deductions. >> and, martin, he still had to walk that back afterwards. professor reich is right here. what the american people need to understand is...
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speaker boehner is on the right track. i think he's shown a willingness to talk about things that we haven't been able to talk about before. they need to sit down and hash this out. >> isn't that interesting. republicans won't answer the direct question because these aren't the kinds of cuts they are looking for. if an interview, mitch mcconnell offered his wish list. higher medicare premiums for the wealthy americans and an increase in the medicare eligibility age. he wants to slow the cost of living increases on social security. social security is off the table. on medicare, though, one part of the president's savings would come from increasing premiums to the wealthiest americans so there might be some agreement there. but raising the eligibility age for medicare recipients is an absolute nonstarter. the idea is unpopular and it's also inefficient because it increases the cost to seniors without creating much savings to the government at all. here's the bottom line in all of this. house republicans have voted for paul r
speaker boehner is on the right track. i think he's shown a willingness to talk about things that we haven't been able to talk about before. they need to sit down and hash this out. >> isn't that interesting. republicans won't answer the direct question because these aren't the kinds of cuts they are looking for. if an interview, mitch mcconnell offered his wish list. higher medicare premiums for the wealthy americans and an increase in the medicare eligibility age. he wants to slow the...
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i say let boehner be boehner. let him negotiate the best possible way out of the box. which is what i think you're seeing happen now. >> you mentioned grover norquist. he's making a new prediction, by the way. let's listen. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four bad years of regulation taxes. he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party 2 is going to dwarf tea party 1 if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> so basically, jon, what grover norquist is saying there to members of the tea party set who have been elected, who were elected, is, you know, we're going to take everybody who is against us into a primary on your right. >> right. >> on the republican side. >> right. >> so the threat has been issued already,
i say let boehner be boehner. let him negotiate the best possible way out of the box. which is what i think you're seeing happen now. >> you mentioned grover norquist. he's making a new prediction, by the way. let's listen. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those...
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i think boehner, a lot of us want a big deal. we're willing to put everything on the table. >> including new revenue? >> including new revenue. when we talk about they're going to cut, add revenue, cut expenses, we're running $1.3 trillion a year. we're going bankrupt if we don't figure out how to do this in a big way, and i think boehner wants to get that done. i think he can lead on that. i'm glad they're together. i just don't -- over the years i've been in business, you know, you given the professionals an opportunity to get it done but at the end of the day you get in a room yourself and we're not leaving until it gets done. >> do you sense eric cantor, kevin mccarthy, other leaders will give john boehner the room that he needs to do the deal? >> i do. >> without worrying about having to come back and getting his knees cut out from underneath him? >> they've sent some signals. i don't know it if you've been reading. i'm sure you've seen a loft different things about members but i think they want to get a big deal, a substant
i think boehner, a lot of us want a big deal. we're willing to put everything on the table. >> including new revenue? >> including new revenue. when we talk about they're going to cut, add revenue, cut expenses, we're running $1.3 trillion a year. we're going bankrupt if we don't figure out how to do this in a big way, and i think boehner wants to get that done. i think he can lead on that. i'm glad they're together. i just don't -- over the years i've been in business, you know,...
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. >> that's about right. >> 65 is where boehner checks in. we were talking about boehner in the last segment. what lawrence is saying is true. it's not boehner's fault he's a weak speaker, but he is an incredibly weak speaker. there's that thing in the times saying maybe they're coming around. i don't think they're coming around at all. the problem is the republican party is driven by this sort of conservative movement more now than ever before in the last couple of years. boehner is a little more old school in that. he came to congress in 1990. he was sort of a reformer and teamed up with democrats, he was more pragmatic and climbed into the leadership and fell out and climbed back in. he was next in line for the leadership when the tea party thing happen. the story of his speakership is the tea party conservatives are waiting for the minute he sells them out. he hasn't sold them out yet. >> it's like the tail wagging the dog. >> he doesn't exercise any p power. this is a test this month. he's waiting this out and looking to have enough cred
. >> that's about right. >> 65 is where boehner checks in. we were talking about boehner in the last segment. what lawrence is saying is true. it's not boehner's fault he's a weak speaker, but he is an incredibly weak speaker. there's that thing in the times saying maybe they're coming around. i don't think they're coming around at all. the problem is the republican party is driven by this sort of conservative movement more now than ever before in the last couple of years. boehner...
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boehner had his chance. president obama now thinks he has the upper hand. according to the "washington post's" ezra klein, quote -- >> joining us now representative chris van hollen of maryland, ranking member of the house budget committee. great to have you on the program. >> great to be with you, alex. >> let's talk a little bit about 2011 versus 2012, which is to say, the republican party is a very different negotiating position than they were last year and as ezra outlines, it sounds like john boehner would probably readily accept the deal he had at one point with the president if it were happening today. >> well, a couple things. the exact revenue level that the president was pushing for back in 2011, was subject to some dispute. the president was looking for $1.2 trillion, speaker boehner looking for $800 billion, but you're absolutely right, alex. what republicans are trying to do today is recreate at least some of what they thought the agreement was before, but times have changed. in addition to the fact that it's not at all clear exactly what that
boehner had his chance. president obama now thinks he has the upper hand. according to the "washington post's" ezra klein, quote -- >> joining us now representative chris van hollen of maryland, ranking member of the house budget committee. great to have you on the program. >> great to be with you, alex. >> let's talk a little bit about 2011 versus 2012, which is to say, the republican party is a very different negotiating position than they were last year and as...
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john boehner has to let rates go up. i think that's right. whether or not it's to 37 or whether or not we raise the threshold from 250 to something like $500,000 at the point we call people rich, that's a possibility. i think the same thing exists on the entitlement side. there are things that president obama laid on the table in the summer of 2011 we keep talking about. democrats really do not like changes to the measure of inflation applied to social security benefits, and they really do not like raising the eligibility age for medicare. so there are other things that happen? can we scale back the generosity of the obama care subsidies? can we start means testing in additional ways in the medicare program? they have to get creative. >> they got it to get creative, zachary. this comes at the busiest time of the year for retailers and businesses. have you noticed any signs at this point that consumers are at all holding back this holiday season fearing we may go over the so-called fiscal cliff? >> there's a lot of news reports on consumers ho
john boehner has to let rates go up. i think that's right. whether or not it's to 37 or whether or not we raise the threshold from 250 to something like $500,000 at the point we call people rich, that's a possibility. i think the same thing exists on the entitlement side. there are things that president obama laid on the table in the summer of 2011 we keep talking about. democrats really do not like changes to the measure of inflation applied to social security benefits, and they really do not...
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they are speaking as one with john boehner. so that's, i think, the big difference is that boehner, cantor, mccarthy, throw paul ryan in there, this is a quartet that is moving as one, negotiating as one. there's no, none of this looking over the shoulder. on the leadership side, it's a much different story. yes, it really depends on how you want to try to view it. can you find more rank-and-file conservative republicans who are sort of not in the circle? yes. to complain. but there's no -- there's no alternative. >> bob, you, yesterday, shadowed grover norquist for quite some time. you went to the meeting, his wednesday meeting. >> that's right. >> he has all the time with some of the most powerful conservatives in d.c. and across the country attending. what was their attitude about any deal that boehner might have to make? >> it's pretty interesting when you talk to house republicans because they look at boehner from two different perspectives. on one side, boehner went in front of the house conference and he said, i'm not go
they are speaking as one with john boehner. so that's, i think, the big difference is that boehner, cantor, mccarthy, throw paul ryan in there, this is a quartet that is moving as one, negotiating as one. there's no, none of this looking over the shoulder. on the leadership side, it's a much different story. yes, it really depends on how you want to try to view it. can you find more rank-and-file conservative republicans who are sort of not in the circle? yes. to complain. but there's no --...
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speaker of the house john boehner called it dead on arrival yesterday. the question is whether democrats in the senate hold the line here or whether they say, we need to do something about a carl levin seems to think you can't push this through with the nuclear option. you need to get two-thirds on board. >> this is what happened when they last considered this in 2010 where you had the gray beards of the institution say no, this is supposed to be the [ inaudible ] for the house and chris dodds go to the floor and say this cannot happened. what happens with gray beards is they usually leave. >> or get grayer. >> we have a new class of senate democrats coming in and saying there is a legal and constitutional basis for doing this. the thing that i think gets confused here, is that they're not doing away with the filibuster. what reid is trying to do -- >> i think they should do. >> well, you can make -- you can have the argument because a lot of reproductive rights groups would be more cauckau -- cautio about them. have them show up and get 40 votes. >> if
speaker of the house john boehner called it dead on arrival yesterday. the question is whether democrats in the senate hold the line here or whether they say, we need to do something about a carl levin seems to think you can't push this through with the nuclear option. you need to get two-thirds on board. >> this is what happened when they last considered this in 2010 where you had the gray beards of the institution say no, this is supposed to be the [ inaudible ] for the house and chris...